All Your Base Are Belong To College
George wrote about the Bachelor of Engineering course under Anna University and the less fortunate who are burdened with it. Read it here and then come back to this post.
First off he talked about organised protests. We had that a few times. It was nice. Two years ago our seniors were annoyed with the poor placements we had and decided to go on strike. So we went downstairs and assembled before the department block. The Principal and the HOD came and mollified the seniors after a few hours after promising to do whatever they wanted. So what happened after that? None of their demands were met and the people who acted as spokespersons for the strike had their internal marks reduced that semester.
Last year, the Mechanical department didn’t have a lot of the machinery/equipment required for the course and even though the students asked for it many times there was no progress. So those chaps enlisted their juniors and went on strike. The previous strikes had been so ineffective that they decided to force the management to listen to what they needed. They assembled near the gate and blocked the buses from leaving the college in the evening. Some of the people from the management arrived and after some heated arguments, the students were told that all that they wanted would be taken care of and finally they dispersed. The result of this strike? About six of the people who were made themselves heard during the strike were expelled the next day. Needless to say none of their demands were met.
So every time we ask for something we are ignored or sent away with false promises. We cannot escalate the matter further for fear of getting expelled or internals reduced or answer papers sabotaged.
Now what do you want us to do? There are no student unions (they are not allowed/encouraged in engineering colleges). There is nowhere else to air our grievances. In typical Indian fashion, parents want their kids to bear whatever is thrown at them ‘for the sake of their future’.
The next part of the post deals with people joining engineering and complaining about it. What George has conveniently ignored is that people are not complaining that they took the wrong course. They are complaining that the course is so poorly designed and out of date. They are complaining that colleges are bureaucratic, implement ridiculous archaic rules and treat students like shit. Hence, they wish that they had done some other course.
Later, George says:
With such draconian parents, people unwilling to accept that their children must be latent geniuses at something other than engineering, these people must be having a hard time going home and handing in their semester mark sheets showing a few miscellaneous arrears. Strangely, they don’t.
Wrong. For example, one of my classmate who was playing CS with us every day was forced to stop using the computer after he flunked a subject.
They also don’t have any trouble bunking the occasional class, waking up at 2 in the afternoon, playing video games all the time or watching TV for long periods of time.
That’s just me! I don’t let my parents scare me. It doesn’t happen everywhere.
George only has limited facts and second hand information at his disposal. Plus his views are skewed because he studies in an arts college which has existed for decades where things work differently. You have to study in a mediocre engineering college to know how it really is. The frustration with the unqualified staff that make you run around just to assert their control over you, the randomness in scoring in the exams, the stupid rules, the unbearably dull classes…
If you don’t understand the title, see AYBABTU.
April 1st, 2008 at 12:01 pm
Take that George, and that , and that!!
But, Marc is right to a large extent. Also, I got a feeling that the post George wrote was directed entirely at Marc. (George who else constituted your sample set ?
)
April 1st, 2008 at 7:21 pm
I too read George’s post.Whatever we say, he’s against our complaint, saying you engineers give lame excuses but actually it gotta to be truth. He belongs to arts college so definetly he would’ve had good staffs who can teach well and they don’t treat students like kinder garden kids.
Talking about the strike, i too took part and went inside principal room for a talk along with my seniors, as said no result just reduced internal marks or suspension for 2 or 3 days. Still the placements are very poor in our college.
What we people are trying to say is that, we need a more of practical education than theoretical one( current system ). Quite less portions, so that we can concentrate more in few subjects than mugging up many.
we are not totally against Engg but the system that’s practiced currently.
April 1st, 2008 at 8:21 pm
I didn’t read anyone else’s post, but I just have to say that not all arts and science students have excellent teachers and many advantages over Engg students.
April 1st, 2008 at 8:35 pm
George was just ignorant. But I should give it to him for making this one point. Engineers are all talk but no work. How many do you believe actually think of participating in an organized revolt? Some don’t even take sides and sit it out, leaving the revolting to few brave souls. Take you college, did you all protest against expelling those poor students? No. You just didn’t stand united for a cause you really cared for.
April 2nd, 2008 at 12:06 am
@Arun,
The entire mechanical department Final year was suspended this once. What do you have to say about that?
These guys have political clout. You can’t do shit. Organised or not.
And, to all Engineers,
Isn’t Engineering supposed to be the superior course ?
I mean, everytime someones says “I am doing BSc Chemistry*”, the general impression is like “Oh, must have been really bad at school. No wonder he had no other choice” 
*-Just as an Example. Chemistry graduates need not get offended.
April 2nd, 2008 at 8:43 pm
In response to OP:
Ha ha, you just proved my point. The time those guys got expelled, you people bent over and took it. When the promises weren’t met, you bent over and took it. When the internals were reduced, you bent over and took it.
At first I was surprised that you used the words ‘allowed’ and ‘encouraged’ w.r.t student unions. Then I wasn’t. Refer previous para to know why.
I also have to say that I laughed hysterically reading that bit about arrears just now. Ha ha, I’m hilarious. Okay, facts then, how many of you who play CS over Hamachi on the aihtcs network had no arrears ever?
You don’t let your parents scare you? Dude, you didn’t want to do engineering. You wanted to do an arts course or something.
The crux of your problem is in your acceptance of authority and in this bit:
They’ve got you in that perfect situation for them. Things aren’t so bad, the alternative so good, that you need to revolt. Their treatment of you hasn’t reached that critical point where it becomes worthwhile for you to try to overthrow it. And considering the fees you pay, that point will never be reached.
MCC isn’t exactly paradise, dude. It isn’t. It isn’t hell, but it isn’t paradise.
To Karthik-15932:
It wasn’t. It was directed at all complaining engineers. Though parts were Marc-specific : ) I have the impression he’s actually done something about his situation. Don’t ask why. It’s just an impression I get. The sample set was, mostly, everyone on Marc’s blogroll/commenter list who has made a post/comment complaining about engineering college.
To Rachel-15935:
Refer paragraph 1 of this comment, and also Anusha-15936. I understand the last two paragraphs and agree, my sympathies. Now follow up on those words. Properly, not in some half-baked manner. Don’t fear the reaper.
I am not against you complaining. I am for it. I am against you only complaining. Important distinction to be made.
To Arun-15938: I agree, I cannot know just exactly how it is. Thanks for picking up on just what I mean in your last few sentences.
To Karthik-15940: The entire department was suspended and nobody made a fuss? The other departments sat by in silence? Martin Niemöller would like a word with you all.
The bit about Engineering being better I find really funny because when I mention that I’m in MCC I get these looks of contempt from people. “Why? Didn’t get Engineering?” It’s true, you’re supposed to be the best of the best. *sigh*
Yes, I get a kick out of referring to people by serial numbers.
April 3rd, 2008 at 10:09 am
Engineering simply rocks. I really liked the last 4 years in my college.Life can’t get better than this. This is Paradise. “Are you now Happy jaar’ge, Oops George”
April 3rd, 2008 at 1:37 pm
@George : It is not possible for an arts college student to understand/feel the problems of an engineering student…. They( arts college students)can able to feel all these things, if and only if they study in Engineering college/Jail…… We suffered so many problems here….
1.) No proper food
2.) Unqualified staff (as what Marc said) who finished there UG course just by that time.
3.) Frequent blackmails in the name of Suspension, Internal Marks and so on…
4.) Useless assignments
5.) Needless ego between the staffs itself, which in turn will affect the students relationship with staffs
6.) Stupid rules and regulations.
7.) No proper course plan will be there.
8.) Fucking policies like for Ex : A student who failed in monthly test will not be allowed to use the internet lab. I don’t know who framed all these things George…
Now u tell Mr. George….. Is arts college is having all these problems? Hmmm…..
April 3rd, 2008 at 2:50 pm
@Selerines,
1) No proper food ? WTF ?? How come you have so many rounds, like its a recursive algorithm ?
(It’s anyway not relevant. This is not AU answer sheet. Don’t fill your comments with irrelevant stuff.) One more Buhaaaa for that.
Jesus, what are you saying ?? Oh, ok. (Note to everyone. Read the entire sentence. I was shocked intially too. Didn’t know we had such policies.) But doesn’t #6 cover that ? (And did you mean George framed these “effin” policies ? 
George, you the dood.)
2) Unqualified ? They are just as qualified as me and you. They are ENGINEERS.
3) (I tried thinking of something to say, but then cudn’t think of anything.)So, Buhaaaaaaaaaaa
4)Assignments are the most useful things in an Engineering course. Ofcourse you will argue saying we all copy anyway. (Yea, screw things up yourself and crib about it.)
5) What relationship did you plan on having with the staff anyway ??
6) Got to agree there. Gubaaaa
7) Doesn’t really matter. The syllabus is mostly pretty decent. Who cares about course plans ?
See how writing engineering exams can make you comment like this ?? Please don’t write semester exams- all engineering students.
Now, George will have to rack his brains to come up with an answer. Tell Mr. George!!
April 3rd, 2008 at 11:15 pm
I don’t think George has to reply to any of these. He has already done that.
April 4th, 2008 at 3:12 pm
Hello Marc, why do you still brood over the past man?? Only a month to spare and then you are out of the college. Cheer up!!
But, look at us, we have to spend ONE more year as slaves of the modern age, in this college.
I think George has nothing to say other than mocking at us(Engineering students).
April 4th, 2008 at 9:09 pm
Dai Karthik, Too much thinking on your last comment. Pavam da Siva. You always have pleasure in kalachifying him.
April 5th, 2008 at 2:42 am
Of course I do. I get a kick out of it
I’m sure he won’t mind. He’s a good sport.
April 5th, 2008 at 5:43 pm
Arun, those people were expelled for going on strike. Your suggestion is to go on another strike with the threat of expulsion (with no fee refund) over your head? Be realistic. You are also forgetting that it wasn’t a cause we really cared for.
George, you seem to take great pleasure in pointing out that we bend over and take it but you don’t actually suggest any course of action. Do so and we’ll point out why nothing can be done.
I used the words ‘allowed’ and ‘encouraged’ for a very good reason. A union that is not recognised has no power.
Of the people who play on the Hamachi network, only two people have not had arrears so far. What does that tell you?
Parents didn’t scare me into engineering. They fooled me into it claiming that you learnt things and that it made sense.
So now you finally admit that the problem is the college treating us badly and us not being able to do anything about it. Which is what we’ve been telling you. We are not whining about the course or how we chose the wrong stream or college. We are stating a real problem and expressing anguish that we are helpless in the hands of assholes.
The more that we talk about it the more people get to know that engineering is fucked up and does not deserve to be called education.
Arun and you want us to do something. Do what? How would it help? Like I said earlier, suggest something that can be done.
Let me ask you a question. Do you hate MCC so much that we wish to see it destroyed? Do you hate it so much you decide never to go there again after you graduate? Do you hate it so much you are reluctant to drive past it on the way to somewhere else? I hate my college that much. You see now why we think arts colleges are better?
Like Siva says, it is simply not possible for you to understand the hundreds of annoyances we face in college every single day without studying here. You hear about them second hand while we actually have to live it.
1. Karthik, you clean out your plate at the mess so completely that I have always been worried that someone would reuse it without washing it. (Not kidding, it’s true.) You shouldn’t talk. The food in the mess is just passable.
4. No, assignments are not useful. Especially when they involve writing down large passages of text. What does that achieve?
7. The syllabus might be decent for people like you learning eletronics and stuff which remain the same for decades. Computer science is cutting edge and we are learning outdated crap.
About the net lab… you did see my post about it right?
Joel, yeah we are out of here soon. I feel sorry for you guys, trapped in college as it gets worse and worse. Yeah George only mocks us and does not and cannot offer any solutions.
April 5th, 2008 at 8:42 pm
You were on the right track with your protests. You fell off it when you stopped. There’s a lot to be said for perseverance, and the long hard road to freedom, you need to stop buckling at the first obstacle. Perhaps in time you will learn that you will never succeed at things like this the first time, and that you may have to sacrifice things, possibly even your own degree, if you want things to change. But if all of you were to show that much, to put in that much, then things will change.
But then, to expect that from you people is too much. My reply to Karthik-15940, the first 3 sentences, is relevant.
They will not accept or recognise you of their own accord, you must force it. You live an illusion if you expect them to turn around and support the students when they haven’t been doing it so far. That’s a lesson for life, those in power won’t be eager to relinquish even one tiny bit. Not in school, not in college, not ever.
I do not hate my college. It could be much better than it is right now, and it’s frustrating to see all the potential wasted, but it is not a bad place, even if you learn nearly nothing (academically) at the place. It is because there were students who put in the effort ages ago (some half a century ago) that the college isn’t as bad as it could be. It’s taken a turn for the worse lately, but it will survive.
I must not give you a solution (though off the top of my head I can think of some) because then you will reject them as the words of an outsider, even if you would come up with the same ideas given the time. To borrow from my favourite discipline, ? at least one non-trivial solution. I can, however, give you a rather broad hint - make it count for them
That the following from OP is untrue.
April 5th, 2008 at 10:12 pm
@Marc,
1. I will not refute the fact that I clean the plate thoroughly. I have been taught not to waste food and was in a boarding school where we were taught to eat what we got. Food is not why I joined Engineering. (I am sure that might have been someone else’s idea of engineering. ) But if you think it deserves paramount importance. Stop eating in the mess. We were given that option. Just don’t goblle food like crazy and then say it tastes like shit. I never do second serving. Just don’t waste food. And when was I complaining about food ?
4. Assignments are the most important things in engineering. No wonder you don’t make a good engineer. I don’t think teachers ever give you a word limit saying ‘in not less than 10,000 words’ If you had the balls, you’d have written just what was necessary and not bothered about the marks or anything. You are simply not interested. Don’t blame everything on the system. How many math / ED assignments have you done ? (Don’t tell me you were given long passages to write.) Actually, it’s stuff like this that drives people like George to call all engineers incompetent and take the stand that he does.
7. Cutting edge ? Bull crap. Don’t gimme crap. You cant keep up with an antiquated system and you want ‘cutting edge’ stuff to be taught to you ? I can name some amazing texts for your subjects. All the computer texts I have used till date have been good right from C, Data Structures, Vb, MFC. Even books for networks and computer architecture are good. The basics never change and you are expected to have a strong foundation to handle things that come your way. You are not expectd to learn cutting edge stuff that will anyway be antiquated in the near future. Talking about cutting edge stuff, what electives did you choose and how well have you done in that ?
Agree about the net lab and all that. I know Engineering colleges suck. That’s always been my stand. But you can take steps to make sure you aren’t affected. Strikes and stuff wil solve everyone’s issue. If you think that won’t solve the problem, concentrate on your interests.
But yes, I hate college as much as you do, maybe even more. Those retarded bastards need to be castrated and paraded naked on the road from Madhya Kailash to Mahabalipuram. (The VC included. But I doubt if you can castrate him.)
April 5th, 2008 at 10:17 pm
@George,
Now, why don’t you protest against the society. Why don’t you protest against Moral Policing in Chennai ? To quote you,
“There’s a lot to be said for perseverance, and the long hard road to freedom, you need to stop buckling at the first obstacle. Perhaps in time you will learn that you will never succeed at things like this the first time, and that you may have to sacrifice things, possibly even your own degree, if you want things to change. But if all of you were to show that much, to put in that much, then things will change.”
The day you do that, we will make things change as well. Just because you don’t face problems, and aren’t required to come up with solutions, doesn’t mean you call others cowards. Come up with solutions for social problems and make things change. Then we shall listen to you. We shall seek advice from you and bow to you.
So, when is MCC organising a strike against moral policing in Chennai ? Do let me know if you are on television.
April 5th, 2008 at 11:03 pm
@George, let me ask you a question?
Will your parents allow or encourage you when you say, Mom & Dad, i was given TC, coz i protested against college rules.
Will they say okay, no problem i’ll come and talk with the managment
Will they support you saying, what my son did was right?
Or will they ask you, why the hell did you take part in the protest? see the result? They get worried right.
Two reasons we gotta bend over
1. Parents
2. The amount we paid as our college fees
What’s a protest actually? A single person fighting against the fucked up rules or group of people together.
When i came out of the principal room, i was left alone, most of them left when they were sacred by the staffs saying we’ll chuck you out. So we gotta bend and take it.
April 5th, 2008 at 11:30 pm
I fail to see the parallel, I do not complain about moral policing in Chennai all the time. I find it, at worst, a minor annoyance to myself. Since you seem to think it is much worse, convince me that it is big enough to warrant my time. Personally, I think incidents are few and far-between and though they get my blood rushing for a few minutes, they aren’t a daily issue like the original topic is. But that is an argument for a different comment thread, let’s not go off-topic.
Also, your approach to the problem shows a lack of clear thought about the issue at hand, typical of the attitude that allows your college issues to exist. MCC will achieve nothing for that ‘problem’ through a strike, that’s not how strikes work.
In addition, I did not call anyone a coward. But I wish to address your statements that I should first do something before I say anything. Notwithstanding the fact that I have stood up for the issues I care about, I could be the laziest person on the planet and still be in a position to claim correctly that you are lazy. If you’re lazy, you’re lazy regardless of whether the person calling you lazy is lazy or not.
I was hoping not to get such a knee-jerk response. I must confess that I am disappointed, even if only a little, because there is a considerable amount of glee in disproportionate response.
But we digress now. Let us return to talking about your issues.
April 6th, 2008 at 11:59 am
@Kartik : Welcome Champ for another debate here… I think you are so much confused…
1.) Not so many rounds like recursive algorithm my boy…… That food is not even good to execute atleast once… Before the first execution itself, the algorithm will get failured… So what is the need for me to have Recursive algorithm dude.. Hmmm think then post ur comment…..
2.) Not all ENGINEERS are dump…. And don’t compare me with them…. After finishing my B.E if i get the chance to teach some people, i will do that job in a precise manner as compared to our current staffs….. I am having that much confidence… May be you will be in those staffs list dude.. Try to clear your name from that list…
3.)Thank you for popularising the word Bhuaaa… Indirect advertising for my blog…
4.) What assignments? Hmmm… Assignments are just the weapons which was used by the Staffs to put internals for us.. What’s the use of writing the same content from the book into the papers (as what Marc said….). What is the need for giving assignments? Is it the thing used to improve our knowledge, creativity or some thing else…
5.) Am not like you dude… Who fills the Anna University paper with irrevelant things…. While studying in a college/school student-teacher relationship is so much important than other things.. As a college student you don’t know the importance of that relationship. This itself shows.. What type of relationship you had with your staff members…
6.) Syllabus is good…..
Ok tell me… Wat am going to do with the help of welding and so on… That i learned so far in first semester… As a CSE student what am going to do…. Is am going to do welding in L&T Infotech…..? Hmmm….
7.) You not experienced those stupid things in Internet lab yaar.. Thats why you are telling like this…. It is easy to comment but difficult to feel….
So champ i am not scared because of your comments… Am ready for the debate… R u?
@George : Hi dude… It is not fair that you are bringing the arrears and CS games views here….. What is the point in that? Based on arrears you can’t predict one’s intelligence.. In my department my junior friend who is having 4 arrears has scored 93.55% in GATE exam… So don’t say any thing blindly… Be correct in your point dude…. Even though we people have arrears, we are having so much practical knowledge to overcome the future challenges… So don’t under estimate us yaar… Okay Mr. George!!!!
April 6th, 2008 at 12:05 pm
@Hari : Hi dude.. See we should not bother about these things…. It is just like that.. I like debates based on these type of hot and spicy topics… We are CSE guys yaar… We should not get scared for these type of silly things… Leave kartik to go by his own way… I like that kartik!!!!!
April 6th, 2008 at 12:20 pm
Is this a comment section or post section??? So many long comments!!!! :O
April 6th, 2008 at 3:36 pm
Whatever people, i guess if we start a debate it’ll go on for ever. Coz we are so pissed off with insane rules of AU.
I stay with my points
1. Am not totally against engg but the current system that’s practiced.
2.Current system i meant is that, we need more of pratical education than theoretical one.
3. Well experienced staffs
4.Proper evaluation of our semester papers.
April 6th, 2008 at 6:32 pm
@George,
Ah, my bad. You did not use the word coward, indeed. You are in essence correct about the lazy lazy theory. But my point was, it’s not easy to stand up against these people. It does not warrant cribbing and I am against that, but you don’t stand a chance against these immoral sons of bitches, who will use this exact comment to expel me form college if I go on strike. They will stoop as low as low can get. Seriously, not much you can do about it.
Also, what I was saying is not completely irrelevant. Here we are talking about college level administration and it’s in a way a subset of the state level and national level administration. You can draw parallels between them.
@ “Call me Selerines, No one anywhere else does”:
Oh, I am so confused.
@ 1) Errr, I will not comment on it.
I apologise for ‘comparing’ you with ‘them’. Let’s rephrase my initial comment to “They are just as qualified as me and other engineers (exclusive of you). They are ENGINEERS. The point is, they are from the same system. If they suck, the system sucks, we (exclusive of you) suck. (But, that’s just generalising. There are exceptions like you ofcourse.) I made no mention about you not being a good engineer or not doing your job well. You will do it in a precise manner ofcourse. And, yea I’ll take your suggestion of clearing my name from the list seriously. (If you don’t mind, can you hand me a copy of the list ? )
@ 2) Dump ? Ofcourse not all engineers are dumped. You need to be in a relationship first.
@ 3) Why Indirect ? It’s directed at you.
@ 4) If that’s how you wish to see things. I think you are just making excuses.
@ 5) The point was and still is, what’s that got to with your education ?? (Next, ill compile a list of reasons as to why engineering colleges suck. 1) White paint in walls 2) Lack of proper dustbins. Where will we throw away our crap ? Don’t they get it ? ) Also, on one hand, you don’t even want to be compared to “them” as if they are an inferior species or something and on the other hand you think relationship with them (no undertone) is important ? Take a stand.
@ 6) I plan to weld things. What did you plan on doing ? Everyone has interests, and engineering is multidisciplinary. Yes, some papers are not to everyone’s liking, but it’s all interrelated. Also, we crib all the time about how we don’t have a hands on education system, how we are never taught things we can use in life, how we never get to learn anything real and how it is sad that our education is only job oriented. I don’t see why you should use Welding in L&T Infotech, but you can customise your car tomorrow maybe. With the carpentry you learnt, you can fix furnitures. Why, you can even write code to control your welding torch and integrate it with it. There are a thousand things you can do.
@ 7) We don’t have an internet lab!! Have you tried using our labs ? Ah, the pain you people have suffered, playing CS in your labs while we didn’t have Pc’s with C installed on them for the power systems lab. I truly sympathise with you. Must have been really hard.
Ofcourse you don’t have to be scared of me. Why would anyone need to be scared of me ? I am scared of you though. Oh, and I am not ready for the debate. I am sure you are.
You have the practical knowledge to overcome future challenges, but you could’t do anything about the challenges at hand. Now, no one will underestimate you. You have made your point.
Ok, now if you will excuse me, ill be going by my own way. Thanks that you like it.
April 6th, 2008 at 6:34 pm
hey where’s my comment ?
April 7th, 2008 at 10:27 am
Incidentally, All your base are belong to us is a cheat code in Empire Earth that gives you 10000 of all resources.
Anyway, talking about protests and strikes, I remember the one we did in college due to poor food (which was compulsory as well!) Mainly started by the final year guys, the plan started off well with other year guys also taking part; but as soon as some big-shots of the college were seen making their way towards us, I dont know what happened, but there were just four or five of us left to talk with the people! If this is the mindset, forget strikes, we cant even conduct peaceful protests!
April 7th, 2008 at 3:54 pm
@Sathya : You are absolutely correct dude.. There is no use of these strikes…. Because it’s really not possible for us to change all these things…
April 7th, 2008 at 4:18 pm
Hi friends… Let us a put a end to this debate in a fine manner….
@George : Please don’t talk about the arrears and all.. Leave that topic first dude…. It’s needless….. And you said that even you people are having so many problems in your college like what we have here…. Then i don’t know why you put a post like that… Why you are not ready to stand in a position and to see from students point of view? Try to see form our point of view and then share your views dude… Even though we are having so many common issues to overcome in college, at the same time we also have to give some importance for our personal life.. Because my life is in my hands…. I can’t depend on others for my future needs…. We are having so many issues in our mind like Fees, Internal marks, Suspension, Parents and so on….. This is our position dude… How its possible for us to act in a opposite manner? And at the same time whats the use? Nothing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@Rachel : You are correct yaar.. Its hard to change all these things especially in India…..
@Kartik : Hi Champ…..
See we are paying almost 6k to 7k for food…. If we are not getting the equal quality food for that means!!!!!!!! Then whats the use of paying yaar…. Thats what am asking dude…. But one thing da.. It is waste thing to expect these kind of services from these stupids…..
See assignments are just helping some students (not all) to score more marks in exams.. But you tell me in what way it is going to help the students to improve their creativity, knowledge and so on…. That is what a teacher should do….
I accept your points… But still it is not enough to meet the future challenges for the future of India(Students)………..
LET us PUT an END!!!!!!!!! Not for the problem off course it is not possible, atleast for the debate….
April 7th, 2008 at 6:13 pm
I skipped quite a few comments towards the end because I got sick of reading the same whole thing again and again. And I don’t mind adding my unqualified opinion even if it causes the eruption of another wild discussion… Sorry, I’ll be that selfish.
“Let me ask you a question. Do you hate MCC so much that we wish to see it destroyed? Do you hate it so much you decide never to go there again after you graduate? Do you hate it so much you are reluctant to drive past it on the way to somewhere else? I hate my college that much. You see now why we think arts colleges are better?”
That is what Marc said. And this is my reply:
All I can say is that you bloody can’t generalise. MCC isn’t (or in my case wasn’t) great, it wasn’t a wonderful experience and the only reason why I’ve grown fond of it is because of the many wonderful people I met there (George ex.. uhh, included :P) and not because I loved the place or the course or the food or the general behaviour which I must say I found outrageous most of the time… The thing is you can’t pin it down to MCC being an Arts college or whatever.
And talking about the quality of the course… Everybody says the English Department is one of the best at MCC. I don’t feel qualified enough with my one year’s experience to completely detest the department but I must say I hardly learnt anything. At least 35 out of my class of 48 people couldn’t even read and understand everyday English (imagine taking up a course in English LITERATURE!!!) and since most of the teachers didn’t want the students to fail, the average of the class was lower. I hated going to class and thus lacked interest and motivation… But I still passed with good marks and you know why? Because I at least grammatically understood what was being taught…
And now don’t you tell me that I’m comparing MCC to Germany. I’m not.
So, all I want to say is that MCC isn’t all that funny and great. And I’m pretty sure I’m not the only one who thinks like this.
April 7th, 2008 at 7:16 pm
@Marc,
I am going to kill you for not releasing my comments STILL!! (Ok, please do.
)
@Shivakumar,
You seem fixated on certain notions and looking from that viewpoint, everything you say makes sense. But if you want to continue looking at things that way, not much anyone can do about it. All I am saying is, try looking at everything positively and make something productive out of it. You will have to be indifferent, have a strong head and face hardships when you go against the tide (read loads of cribbing engineering students), but if you manage to do that, you will realise things aren’t so bad afterall.
@Isha,
We have only one wonderful person in our college - Marc. Not too many other wonderful people. Now, you decide if we can crib or not.
But all said and done, you don’t have ridiculous rules like guys shouln’t speak to guys, dumb dress codes, not taking soft drinks to class, not wearing shades and cap in class…etc (The list is not exhaustive)
April 7th, 2008 at 9:05 pm
George, so you think going on strike and taking it all the way will help.
Wrong!
Remember The Velammal College Incident?
The students went on strike. The college was closed down for a few days. A meeting with the parents, the management and the Anna Univ VC was set up. The management agreed to some stuff and got people to return to college. And then? Nothing. Absolutely nothing happened.
Now you will say that the students should once again have gone on strike. Be realistic. They just did that. Nothing happened after all their effort. So next time, why would anyone bother? This is my world.
George’s generic solutions are relevant everywhere but here. People will go on strike with the risk of expulsion. But when you know in advance what will happen (nothing at all apart from getting expelled) who in their right minds will? That’s not bravery, that’s just stupid.
Here’s a nice fact: You cannot argue a decision the management makes. Did you know that? Taking it to court is probably the only thing worse than engineering itself. You’ll end up spending more money, wasting more time and dealing with even more imbeciles.
Karthik, a good engineer (I consider that term offensive) is one who writes assignments faithfully? I am so glad that I am not one. You might derive some knowledge from researching subjects for the assignment. That’s just you. I consider it an exercise in futility. I am in classes for 6 bloody hours. Why should I be expected to do work at home?
So you are saying the basics are important. Yes, they are. And we got to them in the third year. Half way through the course. Before that we learnt totally irrelevant bullshit like engineering mechanics and chemistry. I will find you and send you a considerable sum of money if I ever use those things in my life. (I can rest assured that you will never get the money.) What does the quality of the books you’ve read have to do with whether they are up to date?
MFC and VB are not basics, by the way. That is Windows programming, a specialisation that will not be useful unless your organisation uses it.
Isha, I’m not making out MCC to be paradise. I’m saying that students in arts colleges don’t have many reasons to hate their colleges so they can never understand how it is here.
Vinod, note that people are talking about the same things and not random topics like in your blog.
I’ll post about assignment, the syllabus and teacher-student relationships later. If I remember.
April 7th, 2008 at 9:09 pm
About the people: Well, that’s how you see it. Do you know the entire college? And if yes, which I somehow doubt… Do you know them well enough to judge if they are wonderful or not? Not that I’m doubting Marc being wonderful (I wouldn’t know anyway xD) but it seems… uh, wrong.
And now something about what I experienced as a Hall student in MCC.
1) we have unwritten dress codes, yeah. Like most guys can walk around in their “out of bed” look but we girls get blasted if our skin is showing even one inch. I’ve been questioned twice by ‘authorities’ and twice by other hall students because of my clothes. And believe me, I’ve been wearing curtains all the time… No sleeveless. No 3/4s. Nothing tight. The Princi made it clear, we’re not supposed to look attractive.
2) A girl just needs to sit next to a guy and eat a sandwich to get a lecture on the importance of virginity. By her own bloody department.
3) Soft drinks are entirely forbidden in the hall - they could contain booze.
4) girls aren’t allowed to use Internet on their laptops (for which they pay 200 bucks monthly, in ADDITION to the electricity charges!) because they could watch porn.
5) Roll-call is at 6.30pm (in winter at 6pm!) while the boys can stay out till 10 or something. 4 hours difference!!!
6) not a rule but a terrible fact: minimum of 3 girls have to stay in one freaking room… (some girls had to stay in a DORMITORY!) with smelly, disgusting common bathrooms which aren’t even cleaned regularly by the akkas
7) And last but not least… Not wearing caps and shades in class? Even in Germany you’ll get blasted for that…
Don’t worry, the more you crib about your college, the more I will crib about MCC
As I said, the only reason why I managed to survive that dump for 8 months is because I knew I had friends to support me. Ask George… I’ve had terrible downs.
April 7th, 2008 at 9:13 pm
Karthik: About the people: Well, that’s how you see it. Do you know the entire college? And if yes, which I somehow doubt… Do you know them well enough to judge if they are wonderful or not? Not that I’m doubting Marc being wonderful (I wouldn’t know anyway xD) but it seems… uh, wrong.
And now something about what I experienced as a Hall student in MCC.
1) we have unwritten dress codes, yeah. Like most guys can walk around in their “out of bed” look but we girls get blasted if our skin is showing even one inch. I’ve been questioned twice by ‘authorities’ and twice by other hall students because of my clothes. And believe me, I’ve been wearing curtains all the time… No sleeveless. No 3/4s. Nothing tight. The Princi made it clear, we’re not supposed to look attractive.
2) A girl just needs to sit next to a guy and eat a sandwich to get a lecture on the importance of virginity. By her own bloody department.
3) Soft drinks are entirely forbidden in the hall - they could contain booze.
4) girls aren’t allowed to use Internet on their laptops (for which they pay 200 bucks monthly, in ADDITION to the electricity charges!) because they could watch porn.
5) Roll-call is at 6.30pm (in winter at 6pm!) while the boys can stay out till 10 or something. 4 hours difference!!!
6) not a rule but a terrible fact: minimum of 3 girls have to stay in one freaking room… (some girls had to stay in a DORMITORY!) with smelly, disgusting common bathrooms which aren’t even cleaned regularly by the akkas
7) And last but not least… Not wearing caps and shades in class? Even in Germany you’ll get blasted for that…
Don’t worry, the more you crib about your college, the more I will crib about MCC
As I said, the only reason why I managed to survive that dump for 8 months is because I knew I had friends to support me. Ask George… I’ve had terrible downs.
And Marc: Why shouldn’t they? What’s so much ‘better’ in arts colleges than in engineering colleges? It’s obvious that MCC - an arts college - evokes a lot of negative feelings too… So why do you say we don’t have many reasons to crib? Evidently we do!
April 7th, 2008 at 10:12 pm
@Marc,
There seems to be a change in the way you write these days.
There seems to be a calm tone. That’s new. 
There’s a settled way about the way you write. I can see how engineering and 4 years of college and tihs post has worn you out. 
6 hours of classes is a horrible waste. I am totally with you there. The only thing we learn is how not to make a fool of ourselves. This one staff of mine (who handled DSP by the way) tells me
x(y.z) = x.y + x.z ( WTF!!!!!@#@!@!@!@ )
But then, you are expected to work at home because thats the only redemption you have. Ive learnt stuff sitting at home. I am sure you have too. The only difference is, I try and learn stuff from the syllabus that i feel is relevant. You learn stuff that’s not in the syllabus. (Cutting edge, if you like) Well, if it works for you, then fine.
As for engineering mechanics and its irrelevance to your course, did you know most simulation software requires coding ? And if you were good at coding and had sufficient knowledge on mechanics, you could write your own simulation package. (I know people who have. Sadly, I haven’t. I was supposed to collaborate, but I wasn’t able to.)
The same holds for chemistry. People writing molecular level coding get paid three times what you and I might get paid for writing programs to keep tabs in grocery stores.Isn’t that more exciting ?
Yes, it would be great if we could choose the credits. But then do you think the people who chose engineering by default for now specific reason will be able to choose credits ? MAybe you know what you want to do with your life. Most others are clueless and hence they are in engineering.
I never said MFC and VB were basics. Merely that the books were pretty good.
April 7th, 2008 at 11:33 pm
Isha, replying to your comment:
1. We have written rules. Formal clothes only.
2. One side of the ‘canteen’ is reserved for boys and the other for girls. We have a guy employed just to monitor us. He spends a lot of time chatting with any unfortunate girls that happen to catch his eye.
3. This is not a problem. We don’t have soft drinks in our ‘canteen’.
A few month ago the ‘Principal’ saw me drinking a carton of apple juice and starting to go up the stairs.
Principal: “Ei! Ei! Arivu irukka?”
Me: “What?”
Principal: “Why taking that there? Drink in canteen and come.”
The way he said it was like he was some feudal lord and I was his serf. Asshole.
4. Computers in the hostel? Haha, funny. You have to pay Rs. 1000 extra per month or something like that for electricity. (We don’t pay that much for our entire house.)
5. Common to India.
6. Three people minimum per room and four if it is a crowded year. All sanitary facilities are common.
7. You can’t wear caps on the campus!
We can go one up on everything you got. I’ve been in a permanent state of depression for 4 years. Atleast you people have various cultural events and extra curricular activities to take your mind off things. We have none.
April 8th, 2008 at 9:17 am
@Isha,
Sorry. It was shades and caps inside college campus. And why are we discussing Germany ? Isn’t education free there anyway ? We don’t have to shell 50k to be told what to do.
Moreover, most of your complaints sound Gender biased more than anything. Bloody chauvinist MCC people
And Sandwich, laptops, internet ? Damn, I want in too!!
@Marc,
How did Isha sneak in a duplicate comment ? Ive been trying to do that for ages.
Bloody, Gender biased Wordpress
Ok, now lets not make it a “Arts College vs Engineering College - which sucks more” discussion.
April 8th, 2008 at 9:18 am
other people are allowed duplicate comments, mine keep disappearing.
April 8th, 2008 at 2:47 pm
Agreed, Isha. For words from another college, see Anusha.
That’s everything but going the whole way, dude. Your idea seems to be start again from the bottom when nothing happened. Why can’t you see that this isn’t even a marginally intelligent thing to do? What is wrong with you people?! Actually, I’m curious as to how exactly a strike is supposed to pressure them into anything. For supposedly the smartest bunch from high school, each of you people has a decidedly one-track mind.
That’s par for the course even at MIT, dude. An average freshman there spends more than 50 hours a week either in class or preparing for it. Yes, Alex Doonesbury’s life is roughly accurate.
We’re not allowed to drink stuff in class either, lime juice, apple juice, whatever. We don’t have packaged soft drinks in the canteen either except for Appy.
As for up to date course concepts, I’m not the expert on this, but aren’t most programming paradigms used today formulated in the 70s and 80s? Unless everyone’s using Ada 2005 on Plan9 without me knowing.
You know, I realised, you people aren’t there to study. You’re there to provide entertainment for the rest of us.
April 9th, 2008 at 1:01 am
Nice discussion. Call Harish and ask for his opinion.
April 9th, 2008 at 12:00 pm
@George, Isha and all the non-engineering blokes,
You seem to be claiming you have stupid rules just like us. After having read Isha’s comments, I now believe MCC is no better than a AIHT.
But, then, that means, YOU PEOPLE BENT OVER AND TOOK IT/CONTINUE TO TAKE IT, TOO.
I mean, you don’t even think of these things as issues. You required Engineering students to crib, for you to come out and crib. Now, we know we are atleast better. (I know you will say, these are issues you don’t care about and they are not close to your heart. Wusses!!
)
April 9th, 2008 at 5:35 pm
Now George will say these are unimportant and hence he doesn’t care about them enough to protest. Bullshit. You know you cannot change these things. No protest will help. Then he will start another eloquent speech about how there are more important things which he cares about and concentrates on which helps him ignore these things… or something similar.
George seems to think that there is a hundred percent chance that you will get what you want ‘if you go on strike and take it all the way’. The management in these colleges is equally determined to not give in. What happens then?
Why are you comparing us with MIT? This is India. There is no connection whatsoever.
Do you have people actively enforcing all these rules you say your college has too?
You still haven’t suggested even one way to improve our situation.
George, the next time you use the title attribute for more than one word, all your comments get a pink background.
April 9th, 2008 at 5:57 pm
Nice try ;), but it doesn’t survive first contact with facts. I was quick to get into a position where I wouldn’t need to worry about most things. The greatest of my troubles these days are trivial (except for one matter, and that will be sorted out).
Sample difference: One of our professors was very boring. Everyone in our class worked together to ensure that someone else was assigned instead of him. It wasn’t easy, and there was possible trouble, but we did it, or, more honestly, these guys in my class did, and they handled it beautifully. I just stood up to be counted when it mattered. (Isha, ask Arundhathi, I’m sure she can guess which prof)
There’s more, of course, but things are complicated, you know. You can’t just go around talking about these things. People get upset. I’ll tell you in person, of course, if/when we meet, the less important stuff.
The true difference is this. Whenever I have had trouble I’ve gotten past it. My friends and I, we free ourselves and then grumble about things. The grumbling is about the unnecessary effort. Sure, we did nothing in the third year, but the effort we put in when necessary in the past - well, all I can say is that I’m satisfied because it paid off.
Most of MCC’s bad bits are its attitude to women, particularly resident women. That and the fact that soft drinks, shades and caps aren’t something I would strike over are why I can say that MCC isn’t paradise, but that I have little to complain about.
Fine, I’ll say it. Your college doesn’t take you seriously because you don’t take yourselves seriously. While students from other colleges are putting out interesting projects on their own time you’re playing video games. You want magical respect. Doesn’t happen. You want to be automatically accorded importance. Doesn’t happen. Earn it like the rest of us.
I’ll be the first to admit I didn’t do any exceptional Maths in college, but to my department I was important, like so many others in my class, because of what we did do and the people we were. And that made all the difference.
I just noticed your latest comment, Marc. I’ll have to admit, I lived a charmed life in MCC, despite it being so incredibly not-good. I care about these things, they just don’t affect me, see. So I couldn’t give a damn if they continue or not, except that I think this college has more potential than any other arts and science college in Madras.
You were complaining about workload. A freshman at MIT spends more time studying for class a week than you spend in class per week.
Oh yes, if you’re caught, you can be royally screwed. That’s another thing you’re unable to understand, when a workaround is trivial, you don’t need to fix. I’m sure you understand what I mean.
As above, Marc, I cannot post outright how to fix. However, if the engineers here decide to stop trying to win an argument that is loaded against them, and decided to actually search for an alternative, there are enough solutions, and I have hinted strongly toward them. I’m sorry, I really can’t tell you. Prudence holds my tongue.
- Summer Glau
April 19th, 2008 at 12:10 pm
I will comment instead of Harish. Marc you gather. Karthik you too gather. George you also gather. All gather
April 19th, 2008 at 11:53 pm
Forgot to reply to George’s comment.
George, you said exactly what I predicted you would.
Not a single thing you have said is relevant to us. For example, if we didn’t find a lecturer good enough we can’t do anything about it since there is no other lecturer to take his/her place!
Why must I spend any time working on anything? The college doesn’t care and my employer doesn’t give a damn. The correction in exams is unpredictable and random. And what marks you get matter very little as long as it is over 60 percent.
Why the comparison with MIT? Do we get similar pay after the course? No. Similar placements? No. Similar staff? No. We are not similar to them in any way.
There are no fixes for our problems. You may think there are but that is only because you do not study in my college.
Vinod, at first I thought it was Harish who had posted that! ROFL
April 23rd, 2008 at 12:36 am
Great to see you people trying to stay with your points. There’s no end for this discussion until we study in MIT or MCC and George in AIHT.
ROFL
April 23rd, 2008 at 1:19 am
Same mistake again, Marc. You can’t expect to do the same thing as me. I find it hilarious that you actually suggested it. I’m just saying things can be done. Different situations, different solutions.
Of course, your next paragraph shows why you have trouble with engineering, you were never interested in it in the first place. If you were even marginally interested when you joined, you wouldn’t ask why you should put in some effort, you would’ve filled in the spaces that your course left. I know people who have, because they liked it.
The paragraph about MIT also illustrates the same problem. Similar pay, similar placements? You people look for a college like you look for products on a department store shelf. I paid this much, so I should get this much. Effort, my man. You must work!
It was a mistake on my part to try. You never wanted to solve your problems, you only wanted to vent. I’ll let it go at this stage.
@Rachel:
Ha ha, I find that hilarious. You know why? Because if I wanted to do engineering, I wouldn’t end up in AIHT, I’m much too smart for that to happen.
April 23rd, 2008 at 5:49 pm
Ok, I am bored of siding with Engineers now that I am almost done with B.E.,
Marc, you didn’t get what George said about MIT. In reply to your “why should I work at home” he said even MIT students are required to work for those many hours atleast. Don’t go around comparing yourself with MIT people. It’s funny. Honestly. But yea, if MIT buggers work 6 hours, you should be working 12 hours instead of playing online games. Else own up that you never were interested in Engineering.
None of you cribbing engineers wanted to be engineers in the first place. You just wanted jobs with fat pay cheques. All you are bothered about is your employer. Jeez!!
April 23rd, 2008 at 8:20 pm
@George:
Obviously, that’s too smart to happen. AIHT rocks man….ROFL.
@Karthik
Your last few lines in the comment reveals that you did engg with great interest man, that’s nice to hear at least one outta hundred is interested.
April 23rd, 2008 at 10:45 pm
George, nothing can be done about the situation in the college. Don’t mix and match this with other points like the quality or interest in engineering. Our problems are related to how the college treats us, how the university is corrupt and outdated and the resulting annoyances. We don’t have trouble with engineering. We have trouble with the people handling our education.
Karthik, you are again comparing us with MIT. Let them work for however many hours they want. Irrelevant.
So you want me to work instead of playing games. Work on what? Why?
The answer to the second question is ‘more money’, isn’t it? You want a fat pay cheque as much as the next guy. Why would you join a software development company after studying electrical engineering?
April 25th, 2008 at 11:26 am
You are right Marc!
Arts colleges dont have these politics because they are either run by the Govt, or a low investment guy. Not like our colleges, where all top people care about is the returns college gives them,
It happens in my college too. People who voice their opinions are chucked out. Pathetic!
April 25th, 2008 at 11:21 pm
@Marc,
Irrelevant ? You choose not to see it.
Also what with the WE and OUR. Speak for yourself.
Work on What and Why ? How about Course work for a change ?
And you call this a fat pay cheque ? Ha ha ha. Electrical engineers can make better programmers than CompSci students. I’d still want a job where I’d be coding Electrical stuff and not some mundane banking or grocery shop code. But I don’t have one. It’s not like I have a low paying job and chose this instead. I don’t have any other job because the ruddy placement officer won’t let me attend core companies’ placements.
April 26th, 2008 at 1:51 am
As mentioned in the other comment, from now on whenever I say ‘we’ regarding collegemates it does not include you. So now we have my collegemates agreeing with me, like I was saying.
Don’t be silly. What in the course work do you want me to work on and why? Getting more marks in the exams is not a very good reason to study it.
People who are good in programming make good programmers, not by virtue of studying a specific stream. Don’t defend your stream just for the sake of defending it. As if you have any statistics to support your claim.
So why don’t you stay at home and try to get a job you like? The answer is money. You want money and so you are willing to set aside your lofty ideas for cash.
April 26th, 2008 at 11:23 am
@Marc,
If you did not want to work on your Course work, then why didn’t you stay at home and try to get a course you like.
The answer is….well I dunno.
Well, no one has yet done a study, but I am sure a study will reveal as much. I am not defending my stream. I just happen to be in the stream I think is the best. ::)
Why would I sit home and try get a job, when I can work and search for a job simulataneously ? Plus, things I learn in Infosys will come in handy later on. It’s not like I am going to stay there forever. But, we are already moving away from the discussion at hand.
April 26th, 2008 at 5:40 pm
There have already been studies and this is what we know for a fact:
Most students who graduate from engineering colleges are unemployable. Industry heads have said as much.
Such is the quality and relevance of this course to work.
Also you didn’t address anything else I said.