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	<title>Comments on: Operation &#8216;Incompetence&#8217; &#8211; India&#8217;s Response To Terrorism In Mumbai</title>
	<atom:link href="http://marcvz.net/blog/2008/11/29/operation-incompetence-indias-response-to-terrorism-in-mumbai/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://marcvz.net/blog/2008/11/29/operation-incompetence-indias-response-to-terrorism-in-mumbai/</link>
	<description>Valar Dohaeris!</description>
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		<title>By: Vivek Shanmugam</title>
		<link>http://marcvz.net/blog/2008/11/29/operation-incompetence-indias-response-to-terrorism-in-mumbai/comment-page-1/#comment-17457</link>
		<dc:creator>Vivek Shanmugam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 2008 06:56:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://marcvz.net/blog/?p=1533#comment-17457</guid>
		<description>This is India!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is India!!!</p>
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		<title>By: Gany</title>
		<link>http://marcvz.net/blog/2008/11/29/operation-incompetence-indias-response-to-terrorism-in-mumbai/comment-page-1/#comment-17445</link>
		<dc:creator>Gany</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Dec 2008 15:53:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://marcvz.net/blog/?p=1533#comment-17445</guid>
		<description>The worse thing is that the person who died in this attack were given a compensation of 5 lakhs. But the Government is able to give 3 crores to a person winning for himself in Olympics. This is where India lives. This will continue...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The worse thing is that the person who died in this attack were given a compensation of 5 lakhs. But the Government is able to give 3 crores to a person winning for himself in Olympics. This is where India lives. This will continue&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: George</title>
		<link>http://marcvz.net/blog/2008/11/29/operation-incompetence-indias-response-to-terrorism-in-mumbai/comment-page-1/#comment-17441</link>
		<dc:creator>George</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Dec 2008 20:13:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://marcvz.net/blog/?p=1533#comment-17441</guid>
		<description>I have been wronged, I am unable to log in.

Anyway, Suren, you were talking about Chechen militant theatre debacle? I remember that. Pretty much got the idea that they used some chemical weapon (Kolokol-1, I remember reading).

I don&#039;t want my government experimenting on me. I&#039;ll settle for being ignored.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have been wronged, I am unable to log in.</p>
<p>Anyway, Suren, you were talking about Chechen militant theatre debacle? I remember that. Pretty much got the idea that they used some chemical weapon (Kolokol-1, I remember reading).</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t want my government experimenting on me. I&#8217;ll settle for being ignored.</p>
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		<title>By: Marc</title>
		<link>http://marcvz.net/blog/2008/11/29/operation-incompetence-indias-response-to-terrorism-in-mumbai/comment-page-1/#comment-17434</link>
		<dc:creator>Marc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 21:35:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://marcvz.net/blog/?p=1533#comment-17434</guid>
		<description>Here&#039;s a related BBC article George linked to:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7760460.stm

You can see that I wasn&#039;t joking when I said the police were armed with World War 2 rifles.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s a related BBC article George linked to:</p>
<p><a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7760460.stm" rel="nofollow">http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7760460.stm</a></p>
<p>You can see that I wasn&#8217;t joking when I said the police were armed with World War 2 rifles.</p>
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		<title>By: Marc</title>
		<link>http://marcvz.net/blog/2008/11/29/operation-incompetence-indias-response-to-terrorism-in-mumbai/comment-page-1/#comment-17433</link>
		<dc:creator>Marc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 20:47:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://marcvz.net/blog/?p=1533#comment-17433</guid>
		<description>Suren, those people died because Moscow does not negotiate with terrorists. There were no questions raised about the competency of the Spetsnaz.

Arun M, I pointed out (to my dad) on the first day that their body armor would not stop rounds from an assault rifle. It&#039;s not the media&#039;s fault but the fault of the police who don&#039;t understand basic things such as establishing a secure perimeter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Suren, those people died because Moscow does not negotiate with terrorists. There were no questions raised about the competency of the Spetsnaz.</p>
<p>Arun M, I pointed out (to my dad) on the first day that their body armor would not stop rounds from an assault rifle. It&#8217;s not the media&#8217;s fault but the fault of the police who don&#8217;t understand basic things such as establishing a secure perimeter.</p>
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		<title>By: Arun M</title>
		<link>http://marcvz.net/blog/2008/11/29/operation-incompetence-indias-response-to-terrorism-in-mumbai/comment-page-1/#comment-17432</link>
		<dc:creator>Arun M</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 18:01:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://marcvz.net/blog/?p=1533#comment-17432</guid>
		<description>I heard policemen at CST weren&#039;t armed, and were shot dead like dogs.

@Xavier:
Good points! Esp about police waiting for commandos.

@Marc
There was an article about the vests policemen had. They were meant to protect against 9mm pistols. The police force was cribbing that not enough money is spent on their security. Hell!

I also feel too much info was let out. Who the hell told terrorists NSG and Marine Commandos are coming in? And why the hell did they let the media broadcast everything? THe media shouldn&#039;t be allowed to use cameras.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I heard policemen at CST weren&#8217;t armed, and were shot dead like dogs.</p>
<p>@Xavier:<br />
Good points! Esp about police waiting for commandos.</p>
<p>@Marc<br />
There was an article about the vests policemen had. They were meant to protect against 9mm pistols. The police force was cribbing that not enough money is spent on their security. Hell!</p>
<p>I also feel too much info was let out. Who the hell told terrorists NSG and Marine Commandos are coming in? And why the hell did they let the media broadcast everything? THe media shouldn&#8217;t be allowed to use cameras.</p>
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		<title>By: Suren</title>
		<link>http://marcvz.net/blog/2008/11/29/operation-incompetence-indias-response-to-terrorism-in-mumbai/comment-page-1/#comment-17431</link>
		<dc:creator>Suren</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 06:52:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://marcvz.net/blog/?p=1533#comment-17431</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s funny you mention the Spetznaz for urban warfare after the Moscow theatre hostage debacle. They killed over 100 of their own people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s funny you mention the Spetznaz for urban warfare after the Moscow theatre hostage debacle. They killed over 100 of their own people.</p>
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		<title>By: Marc</title>
		<link>http://marcvz.net/blog/2008/11/29/operation-incompetence-indias-response-to-terrorism-in-mumbai/comment-page-1/#comment-17428</link>
		<dc:creator>Marc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Dec 2008 06:57:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://marcvz.net/blog/?p=1533#comment-17428</guid>
		<description>The part about the intelligence gathering is Israel&#039;s view and not my own.

And it looks like most of the terrorists either got away or weren&#039;t meant to be seen so who knows what&#039;s next. I have zero confidence that they&#039;ll be caught within the next decade. They&#039;ll go to Pakistan and India will send them monthly reminders to extradite them (see Dawood Ibrahim) which will be completely ignored since everyone knows India is all about talk and no action.

You&#039;re saying there was easier access to the roof? That&#039;s just hilarious! They must have bought the chopper just for show.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The part about the intelligence gathering is Israel&#8217;s view and not my own.</p>
<p>And it looks like most of the terrorists either got away or weren&#8217;t meant to be seen so who knows what&#8217;s next. I have zero confidence that they&#8217;ll be caught within the next decade. They&#8217;ll go to Pakistan and India will send them monthly reminders to extradite them (see Dawood Ibrahim) which will be completely ignored since everyone knows India is all about talk and no action.</p>
<p>You&#8217;re saying there was easier access to the roof? That&#8217;s just hilarious! They must have bought the chopper just for show.</p>
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		<title>By: Xavier</title>
		<link>http://marcvz.net/blog/2008/11/29/operation-incompetence-indias-response-to-terrorism-in-mumbai/comment-page-1/#comment-17427</link>
		<dc:creator>Xavier</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Dec 2008 03:21:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://marcvz.net/blog/?p=1533#comment-17427</guid>
		<description>1. The police are utter imbeciles, the media keeps taking about high number of police casualties and about how all those high level police officers died bravely in the line of duty...  What the hell were they thinking ? a bunch of cops who are badly armed and armored rushing into a prepared ambush against a well trained, well armed and highly motivated fanatical enemy. 

The primary function of the ATS , despite the misleading name is to probe bomb blasts and arrest those responsible (oddly enough they suck at that as well.. a few people are arrested and mock trials are held and they drag the case for years on end till everyone forgets what happened and the perpetrators get away scott free). if those idiots had established a perimeter and pinned down the terrorists and limited their mobility while waiting for the professionals to arrive they would have saved a lot of lives and also remained alive themselves. but instead they chose to get themselves killed and due to that miscalculation got a lot of innocent people killed in the process. 

Also 20 - 25 terrorists attacked the city and at last count there were 9 confirmed killed and 1 confirmed prisoner so where are the rest of them? probably on their way to their next target all because those incompetent police morons fumbled around cluelessly.

2. I completely disagree to saying NSG should have waited to gather more intel before storming the targets. 
there was no possibility whatsoever of gathering intel. The terrorists wernt open to negotiations and never revealed their numbers, and there was no way to correlate the eye witness reports. the entire interior of the buildings were in darkness as the power was cut and since the terrorists knew the layout much better than the rescuers and had prepared ambush points no recon team could be sent in advance. 

Also you never know if the terrorists would execute the hostages if they made contact with the recon team.

So the only option was to go in force and eliminate the terrorists as quickly as possible. A job which the NSG and the Marine Commandos did Splendidly, given the circumstances.

3. one thing i find really funny is the fact that they had the NSG rappel from a chopper onto the roof of Nariman house... i mean the roof of the house next door was full of more commandos and the walls of the two roofs were touching each other. one of the commandos even jumped over to secure the rope for the guys in the chopper... so why didnt they all just go over the wall ? which would have been much simpler rather than loading up a chopper and then flying all the way out there and then rappeling down. 

The worlds eye was on mumbai and i suppose the people in charge of the operation didnt want to disappoint the crowd and the media. Maybe next time they will have helicopter gunships hovering around and fighter jets buzzing around as well.

anyways kudos to all who read the whole post and made it all the way down.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>1. The police are utter imbeciles, the media keeps taking about high number of police casualties and about how all those high level police officers died bravely in the line of duty&#8230;  What the hell were they thinking ? a bunch of cops who are badly armed and armored rushing into a prepared ambush against a well trained, well armed and highly motivated fanatical enemy. </p>
<p>The primary function of the ATS , despite the misleading name is to probe bomb blasts and arrest those responsible (oddly enough they suck at that as well.. a few people are arrested and mock trials are held and they drag the case for years on end till everyone forgets what happened and the perpetrators get away scott free). if those idiots had established a perimeter and pinned down the terrorists and limited their mobility while waiting for the professionals to arrive they would have saved a lot of lives and also remained alive themselves. but instead they chose to get themselves killed and due to that miscalculation got a lot of innocent people killed in the process. </p>
<p>Also 20 &#8211; 25 terrorists attacked the city and at last count there were 9 confirmed killed and 1 confirmed prisoner so where are the rest of them? probably on their way to their next target all because those incompetent police morons fumbled around cluelessly.</p>
<p>2. I completely disagree to saying NSG should have waited to gather more intel before storming the targets.<br />
there was no possibility whatsoever of gathering intel. The terrorists wernt open to negotiations and never revealed their numbers, and there was no way to correlate the eye witness reports. the entire interior of the buildings were in darkness as the power was cut and since the terrorists knew the layout much better than the rescuers and had prepared ambush points no recon team could be sent in advance. </p>
<p>Also you never know if the terrorists would execute the hostages if they made contact with the recon team.</p>
<p>So the only option was to go in force and eliminate the terrorists as quickly as possible. A job which the NSG and the Marine Commandos did Splendidly, given the circumstances.</p>
<p>3. one thing i find really funny is the fact that they had the NSG rappel from a chopper onto the roof of Nariman house&#8230; i mean the roof of the house next door was full of more commandos and the walls of the two roofs were touching each other. one of the commandos even jumped over to secure the rope for the guys in the chopper&#8230; so why didnt they all just go over the wall ? which would have been much simpler rather than loading up a chopper and then flying all the way out there and then rappeling down. </p>
<p>The worlds eye was on mumbai and i suppose the people in charge of the operation didnt want to disappoint the crowd and the media. Maybe next time they will have helicopter gunships hovering around and fighter jets buzzing around as well.</p>
<p>anyways kudos to all who read the whole post and made it all the way down.</p>
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		<title>By: Marc</title>
		<link>http://marcvz.net/blog/2008/11/29/operation-incompetence-indias-response-to-terrorism-in-mumbai/comment-page-1/#comment-17426</link>
		<dc:creator>Marc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Nov 2008 10:06:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://marcvz.net/blog/?p=1533#comment-17426</guid>
		<description>Alayan, we probably know more strategy from playing games and watching movies than these clueless policemen.

Arun, it&#039;s true. After every attack they say they had intelligence about it. The problem is they don&#039;t have the power to do anything about it. There will be lots of red tape to get past to get even one M1 Garand. I&#039;m happy that news channels were there to cover all the fumbling.

Hari, the terrorists are completely prepared to die. They know they will die and they are not afraid. That is what makes them so dangerous because they become utterly fearless.

Adithya, it goes without saying. They do that in every situation, from the release of a movie to a bomb alert.

vinod, nothing will happen. Don&#039;t worry. Politicians are spineless people who will do nothing that compromises their position of power.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alayan, we probably know more strategy from playing games and watching movies than these clueless policemen.</p>
<p>Arun, it&#8217;s true. After every attack they say they had intelligence about it. The problem is they don&#8217;t have the power to do anything about it. There will be lots of red tape to get past to get even one M1 Garand. I&#8217;m happy that news channels were there to cover all the fumbling.</p>
<p>Hari, the terrorists are completely prepared to die. They know they will die and they are not afraid. That is what makes them so dangerous because they become utterly fearless.</p>
<p>Adithya, it goes without saying. They do that in every situation, from the release of a movie to a bomb alert.</p>
<p>vinod, nothing will happen. Don&#8217;t worry. Politicians are spineless people who will do nothing that compromises their position of power.</p>
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